Forgotten Spontaneous Conversations

jairusjason: Hello H. You must be busy. Anyway, I'm making you a playlist. Very vintage. Let's meet again soon.
H: cool
H: what about tonight?
jairusjason: Nah. Got work.
jairusjason: And you've got to go save the world.
jairusjason: From a cozy office in Maginhawa St.
H: even saviors need to take a break
H: jesus even had forty days in the desert
jairusjason: Jesus didn't save the world.
H: hasn't.
H: you disbelieving pagan.
jairusjason: He's a philosopher and all, and gave a new direction to the world.
jairusjason: But Religion (including the one founded on his teachings) comprises 3/4 of reasons why the world is at war.
H: i disagree. the war in iraq is not about religion. the war in mindanao is not about religion.
jairusjason: The whole crusades was about religion.
H: it's about power. and in the course of it, those involved in the war will pray to whoever god they want to meet after they die.
jairusjason: Don't pull that Foucault shit on me. hahaha.
H: and don't pull that huntington on me.
jairusjason: Hindus and Muslims
jairusjason: Protestants and Catholics (under the banner of Christ) in Ireland
jairusjason: Wiping out the entire Tokugawa Dynasty in Japan
H: ireland was about control
H: dunno about japan but don't confuse the rhetoric used by those at war with the reasons why they are at war.
H: george bush said god told him to invade iraq and to protect israel. do we take his word for it?
jairusjason: Exactly. Religion becomes a convenient excuse for us to bite each other's heads off.
jairusjason: Of course, there is always power, land, or a nation's sovereignty involved.
jairusjason: But Religion always factors in.
H: but don't confuse excuses with the real reasons. i'm too lazy to go to the office today, my excuse: i'm sick.
jairusjason: It always works. hehe.
jairusjason: It's not entirely true that wars are all about a struglle on power.
jairusjason: sturggle
H: give me one example that wasn't about power.
jairusjason: There are people who genuinely believe that war is justified because their faith has decreed it.
H: what people who are at war believe in may be different from why they are at war.
jairusjason: If you put into context (which is always problematic), or position it in a certain logic, of one religion winning over another, then it may be true that it's always about power.
jairusjason: But it's still too reductive to say that it's just that.
H: example?
H: many people in iraq are fighting back against the US because they believe it's a war against islam and they believe it's their duty to defend their religion. true. but can we then say that the war is about religion?
jairusjason: you can go as far as saying that religion can be used as convenient yet effective excuse to defend/conquer nations and kill other people. That's just as terrible as war itself, whatever the "real" reason war has.
H: what is terrible? the use of religion?
jairusjason: that religion can be used as convenient yet effective excuse to defend/conquer nations and kill other people
H: terrible? but we can't just be terrified all the time.
jairusjason: That's what religion does.
jairusjason: It's a very big ad bacculum.
H: what the heck is ad bacculum?
jairusjason: you've forgotten your fallacies!
jairusjason: hehehehe.
H: terrible? but we can't just be terrified all the time<= what i meant was that we have to do something, and saying "it's all about the instrumentalization of religion" doesn't help much.
H: it's a nice academic thesis but it can get boring in the ivory tower.
H: and if we don't want to just be terrified, only a coherent analysis of power -- who's responsible, how can they be stopped -- can guide our actions.
jairusjason: Having something substaintial to say something about the instrumentalization religion is already part of your coherent analysis of power.
H: but you're right, the pope is evil.
jairusjason: Once we a re-educated on what religion really does, once we rebuild our perceptions or religion, if not replaced with a more rigorous philosophy, we take a signifcant step.
jairusjason: It's not just Ivory Tower shit.
H: ok, agree.
jairusjason: And we've certainly made some progress.
H: i guess i just need no convincing on the evils of religion.
H: but don't underestimate the evils of secularism as well.
jairusjason: There are many areas of society where agnosticism or plain disbelief is no longer a scandal.
jairusjason: Jesus Christ was not a savior.
jairusjason: What is called for is a re-interpretation, and re-reading of his teachings.
H: depends too, a lot his teaching were emancipatory
jairusjason: Which is good!
H: blessed are the poor in spirit, he who will be first will be last and he who is last will be first... it's easier for a camel to enter heaven than for a rich man to enter the eye of a needle or something...
jairusjason: hahaha. I really miss the scriptures.
jairusjason: What are the evils of secularism?
H: um. nazism was secular. it killed 4 million jews.
jairusjason: 6 million.
jairusjason: nah. that's different.
H: hitler wasn't motivated by religion was he?
jairusjason: He was motivated by Nietzsche.
jairusjason: hahahaha.
H: the us claims to have a secular government
H: 650,000 killed in iraq
jairusjason: Oh, yeah. And communism.
jairusjason: Right. It their movements were exactly like religion.
jairusjason: It's another form of... extremism.